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#336592 - 01-06-2008 19:10:42
Re: Is it me or the juice...because it seems like a zin
[Re: David Andreozzi]
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True Southern Exposure
Crazed Wino
Registered: 01-02-2001 08:00:00
Posts: 5444
Loc: Somewhere in the Great Valley ...
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Dave: I have but 2 '97 zins left, both Ridges; a York Creek and a Lytton Sps. My thoughts are somewhat counter to yours in that I "sensed" (with no real, hard data to substantiate me) the Ridge zins becoming gloppier and sweeter in style between '97 and '03. One exception to that was the '03 Pagani where I noted: Unfortunately, that long finish is also punctuated with an alcoholic hotness. This is surprisingly deep and rich to be so young; and while full bodied, there is nothing subtle about it. It’s a big, brash wine. So, if you think zins have become light, insipid and acidic in style, maybe you have a bit of palate drift going on. It happens ......or perhaps ... . . . . . . . you've just burned your palate with all that Turley and Pride you drink.
_________________________
BEB
"I've wrestled with reality for 35 years and I'm happy to state I finally won out over it." Elwood P. Dowd
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#336618 - 01-07-2008 14:39:17
Re: It's not you...
[Re: JFO]
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True Southern Exposure
Crazed Wino
Registered: 01-02-2001 08:00:00
Posts: 5444
Loc: Somewhere in the Great Valley ...
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...you're trying to age Turleys. You're trying to age Zins. These are not things that a rationale person would do and hope for success. .... Lastly, you're drinking Saxum and loving it - it's no wonder your Turley's taste like flat acid. I was with you until that "trying to age Zins comment." Zins can age, and yes, they can be even better. Just ask TomHill. Now, what will become of the Ridge Zins from '99 to '03, I'm not real sure. But I'm with you on everything else you said about David....and probably everything else you were thinking about him as well.
_________________________
BEB
"I've wrestled with reality for 35 years and I'm happy to state I finally won out over it." Elwood P. Dowd
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#336642 - 01-07-2008 19:33:41
Asking TomHill..
[Re: BEB]
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Venerated Icon
Elvis Has Entered the Building!
Registered: 02-15-2004 17:42:19
Posts: 12128
Loc: LosAlamos
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I was with you until that "trying to age Zins comment." Zins can age, and yes, they can be even better. Just ask TomHill. Now, what will become of the Ridge Zins from '99 to '03, I'm not real sure.
And he will tell you that sure/you betcha, Zins can age. But as I've been going thru some older stuff, it's not a no-brainer to pick out the ones that will well. Ripped open 3 of the Ravenswood Zins last night (Cooke/Dickerson/OldHill). Dead?? Not by a long shot. Survivors?? Yeah/for sure. Pleasurable?? Not really. What I call an Oakland wine....there's no there there. Probably the most reliable for aging are the Ridges (and I see no reason the later Ridges won't age well...that's my hunch). The drinking recs they put on the side label are pretty accurate, if somewhat on the conservative side. So one would conclude that it's all about balance if a Zin will age well. The Ridges seen to. But, OTOH, the Nalle's don't seem to age particularly well. My suspicion that the big/alcoholic Zins that we see a lot of these days won't age particularly well. That particularly applies to the Turleys. But then, every so often, I'll hit up an older Turley that's wonderful w/ maturity. The Carlisles??? I've don't recall a single one that I've thought over-the-hill. Some have not developed as well as I'd expected. But when I taste them, I sense a certain structure to them that makes me confident they'll do well with time. Mike's wines are a certain style that I happen to like. Maybe it's just because I can't crack a Carlisle w/o seeing in my mind (son) Riley w/ a whole friggin' box of powdered sugar dumped over his head. Talk about a "whiteface"!! So...yeah...Zins can age....and age well. But it's a bit of a crapshoot, much more so than Syrah, say. So....if you're asking TomHill....that's just my thoughts. But, then, what would I know?? Still learning about Zin and all its nuances and manifestations...after all these yrs!! :-) Tom
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#336676 - 01-08-2008 20:46:13
Not a no brainer
[Re: TomHill]
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Donor
Local
Registered: 03-12-2001 08:00:00
Posts: 1817
Loc: 23 ft toy hauler - various loc...
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I agree with you there, Tom. Would you say that that on the whole, Howell Mountain Zins would be the best bet for aging? I've had examples from Ridge, D-cubed, HMV, that have been very stern wines in their youth but showed nicely 5 years out and beyond. I wonder if Turley's Black Sears bottling would be an example or if the style would trump the source.
Some of the drought year zins like Cary Gott's Montevina wines from the mid `70's held for decades, as did the Carneros Creek `75 Eschen.
Radio Coteau's Von Weidlich Zins seem to have what it takes for further development but are easier to drink in their youth than the Ridge Occidentals from the same source.
Finally, if you ever get chance to try some of Michael Ripley-Lotee's stash of pre-bonded 1974 Lytton Springs Zin you'll be led to believe he must have a 38 degree cellar (maybe he does), it's that fresh!
_________________________
backroadbob
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#336682 - 01-08-2008 22:34:46
Re: Not a no brainer
[Re: Bob Summers]
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Venerated Icon
Elvis Has Entered the Building!
Registered: 02-15-2004 17:42:19
Posts: 12128
Loc: LosAlamos
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I agree with you there, Tom. Would you say that that on the whole, Howell Mountain Zins would be the best bet for aging? I've had examples from Ridge, D-cubed, HMV, that have been very stern wines in their youth but showed nicely 5 years out and beyond. I wonder if Turley's Black Sears bottling would be an example or if the style would trump the source.
Some of the drought year zins like Cary Gott's Montevina wines from the mid `70's held for decades, as did the Carneros Creek `75 Eschen.
Radio Coteau's Von Weidlich Zins seem to have what it takes for further development but are easier to drink in their youth than the Ridge Occidentals from the same source.
Finally, if you ever get chance to try some of Michael Ripley-Lotee's stash of pre-bonded 1974 Lytton Springs Zin you'll be led to believe he must have a 38 degree cellar (maybe he does), it's that fresh! Bob, I agree that many of the HowellMtn Zins are good candidates for aging. Oftimes, they can be pretty hard/tannic/stern/severe in their youth, but they can oft develop really well with age. The cold-climate Zins from up around Occidental and the SantaCruzMtn ones are also good candidates. But these are still no slam-dunks (Kansas colloquialism for "sure thing") for aging, just somewhat better odds. Tom
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#336683 - 01-08-2008 22:55:34
Re: Is it me or the juice...because it seems like a zin
[Re: David Andreozzi]
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Regular
Registered: 02-16-2004 21:42:14
Posts: 828
Loc: Omaha
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Probably a phase for me but lately im enjoying drink younger zins, Quivira and Seghasio,Rafenelli - 2000's are drinking beautiful, Taltey, Dry creek. So, I havent cellar anything in the zins lately, but have drank some nice oldies lately. 94-97 yrs
Jessup 96 Atlas peak Williams Selyem 94 Mendo Martenelli 97 Jack ass Vinyard Turley 97 old vines I think i even had a Dashe
Happy New Yr Dave paul
Edited by Paully (01-08-2008 22:58:13)
_________________________
KICK BALLS
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#336686 - 01-09-2008 00:42:38
Re: Not a new phenomenon
[Re: David Andreozzi]
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Member
Registered: 02-19-2004 20:50:01
Posts: 269
Loc: Los Angeles, CA (actually, Gle...
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Without boring you with the backstory, this weekend I opened and tasted ten 1982 Storybook Mountain Vineyard Zins and eight 1981 Dusi Ranch zins from a producer whose name I cannot remember right now (not Ridge or Peachy Canyon). All had been well stored but were total piss, either sherry flavored port or shrill cherry colored lemon juice. I have had a few decent aged Zins but none that were enjoyable beyond the 15 year mark, and even those are few and far between.
It's hardly limited to Zin either, because I also opened a 1975 Bordeaux from one of the "Super Seconds" and a 1982 Puligny-Montachet and they sucked too. Bottom line is that I don't believe wine is made for extended aging. Yes, it changes, but rarely for the better past the 5-10 year mark, or even sooner in the case of some varieties like Zin whose charm is their fruit.
_________________________
DonnyMac
aka
Sean McLoughlin
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