Cheating in Burgundy.....

Posted by: TomHill

Cheating in Burgundy..... - 04-19-2017 07:23:38

As linked in Terroirist, TomWark poses an interesting question:
TomWark/Cheating

about the creation of a hail shield in Burgundy and if it is, thereby, altering the sacrosanct "terroir" of Burgundy.

I find it interesting that a BioDynamic grower in Burgundy, who would be loath to add SO2 or tartaric or yeast (but has absolutely no ethical problem w/ chaptalization) to his wine endorses this wholesale corruption of the Burgundy "terroir".
Just like in the real world around us today, it is increasingly occupied by nothing but hypocrites.

The positions that people take on this issue are utterly predictable. The lovers of Burgundy wine will shrug their shoulders and argue that it makes for better wines and, therefore, this naked corruption of Burgundy "terroir" is perfectly OK. Those others will gleefully point out that this unethical modification of Burgundy "terroir" is corrupt and evil and, gawd-forbid, if it is ever used in Barolo or SantaYnez. As for me...who doesn't give a rat's a$$ about Burgundy..."meh". Of course, we'll never know which side is "right" until SweetAlice weighs in on the subject.

Anyway...a very interesting/thought-provoking article by Tom.

Tom...in his best [potstirring.gif] mode.
Posted by: Florida Jim

Re: Cheating in Burgundy..... - 04-19-2017 07:36:29

Tom,
Without reading the article, I was trying to picture a hailstone shield. My mind went a bit goofy doing so. However, learning that it involves generators of silver iodide, I now understand.
And my first question would be about the silver iodide and its effects on the biodynamic or organic nature of viticulture. Sounds like a chemical addition to me, albeit indirectly.

Unlike you, I'm a Burgundy fan so it is of some concern. Maybe I'll research this particular chemical a bit.

The more esoteric issue of its effect on terroir is beyond me. Terroir itself is a rabbit hole concept, in my opinion. Not saying it doesn't exist, just saying it's hard to describe. Maybe it's like obscenity - one knows it when you see (taste) it.
Best, Jim
Posted by: BEB

Re: Cheating in Burgundy..... - 04-19-2017 07:46:53

I'll bite, at least as far as the immediate issue. But I don't dare address chaptalization.

Is there any evidence that silver particles have has any long term affect on roots, vines or fruit? The underlying article reported that, "Growers looked into possible health risks of silver particles being projected into the atmosphere, but concluded that with only two grammes per 10 hectares per year, some 100 times below legal limits, these were minimal"
Posted by: TomHill

Gasp..... - 04-19-2017 07:47:11

Originally Posted By: Florida Jim
Tom,
Without reading the article, I was trying to picture a hailstone shield. My mind went a bit goofy doing so. However, learning that it involves generators of silver iodide, I now understand.
And my first question would be about the silver iodide and its effects on the biodynamic or organic nature of viticulture. Sounds like a chemical addition to me, albeit indirectly.

Unlike you, I'm a Burgundy fan so it is of some concern. Maybe I'll research this particular chemical a bit.

The more esoteric issue of its effect on terroir is beyond me. Terroir itself is a rabbit hole concept, in my opinion. Not saying it doesn't exist, just saying it's hard to describe. Maybe it's like obscenity - one knows it when you see (taste) it.
Best, Jim


Gasp!! You're gonna get thrown out of the winemaking fraternity w/ heresy like that, Jim!!
Tom
Posted by: TomHill

Awwww... - 04-19-2017 07:51:20

Originally Posted By: BEB
I'll bite, at least as far as the immediate issue. But I don't dare address chaptalization.

Is there any evidence that silver particles have has any long term affect on roots, vines or fruit? The underlying article reported that, "Growers looked into possible health risks of silver particles being projected into the atmosphere, but concluded that with only two grammes per 10 hectares per year, some 100 times below legal limits, these were minimal"



Awwwww, Boyce.....we can't let scientific "facts" interfere w/ a good troll...can we??
Tom
Posted by: Florida Jim

Re: Gasp..... - 04-19-2017 10:15:26

Originally Posted By: TomHill
Originally Posted By: Florida Jim
Tom,
Without reading the article, I was trying to picture a hailstone shield. My mind went a bit goofy doing so. However, learning that it involves generators of silver iodide, I now understand.
And my first question would be about the silver iodide and its effects on the biodynamic or organic nature of viticulture. Sounds like a chemical addition to me, albeit indirectly.

Unlike you, I'm a Burgundy fan so it is of some concern. Maybe I'll research this particular chemical a bit.

The more esoteric issue of its effect on terroir is beyond me. Terroir itself is a rabbit hole concept, in my opinion. Not saying it doesn't exist, just saying it's hard to describe. Maybe it's like obscenity - one knows it when you see (taste) it.
Best, Jim


Gasp!! You're gonna get thrown out of the winemaking fraternity w/ heresy like that, Jim!!
Tom


There's a fraternity?
Man, I'm always out of the loop.
Best, Jim
Posted by: BEB

Re: Gasp..... - 04-19-2017 11:52:34

Originally Posted By: Florida Jim
Originally Posted By: TomHill
Originally Posted By: Florida Jim
Tom,
Without reading the article, I was trying to picture a hailstone shield. My mind went a bit goofy doing so. However, learning that it involves generators of silver iodide, I now understand.
And my first question would be about the silver iodide and its effects on the biodynamic or organic nature of viticulture. Sounds like a chemical addition to me, albeit indirectly.

Unlike you, I'm a Burgundy fan so it is of some concern. Maybe I'll research this particular chemical a bit.

The more esoteric issue of its effect on terroir is beyond me. Terroir itself is a rabbit hole concept, in my opinion. Not saying it doesn't exist, just saying it's hard to describe. Maybe it's like obscenity - one knows it when you see (taste) it.
Best, Jim


Gasp!! You're gonna get thrown out of the winemaking fraternity w/ heresy like that, Jim!!
Tom


There's a fraternity?
Man, I'm always out of the loop.
Best, Jim


It comes with a tee-shirt and everything. Man bun is optional.
Posted by: Charlie Chadwick

Re: Cheating in Burgundy..... - 04-21-2017 18:14:34

Despite all the wit expended in this thread about the topic, there is a very human element to this. Too many Burgundy growers have been crippled by hail damage in three of the last five vintages. Most are really farmers trying to survive. I don't know the overall effects of this technique, but when you are faced with a survival question it ceases to be funny.

Charlie
Posted by: Florida Jim

Re: Cheating in Burgundy..... - 04-22-2017 05:42:52

Indeed.
As we converse, frost is reeking havoc in Champagne and the Jura. I can only imagine how this will effect Burgundy, etc.

While the subject is esoteric,, and hence open to humor, the reality translates very differently.
Best, Jim
Posted by: Otops

Re: Gasp..... - 04-24-2017 11:56:27

Nice!

I want in!
Posted by: Otops

Re: Cheating in Burgundy..... - 04-24-2017 12:06:13

I was going to mention the same thing in reference to Champagne. If they all had the ability to heat their vineyards in efforts to fight the frost, I for one, would not argue.

Personally, I am losing more terroir-ic faith as the days go. Wine has become so homogenized, the sense of terroir has been diminished (generally speaking).

I say they should shield their vineyards; heat them; net them; crop them; pare them; etc. Do whatever it takes to give the best quality and make the most money for themselves.

You know the second-tier and third-tier won't be losing any money. Right?
Posted by: JimBomba

Re: Cheating in Burgundy..... - 05-05-2017 04:23:02

from jim bomba talk about chainging the weather in one little area of the globe.those of u who remember the song in the year 2525. the lyerics say it all.by zagar and evans.google "in the year 2525"